tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post3136146489214044269..comments2024-01-02T13:37:26.563-06:00Comments on גֵּר־וְתוֹשָׁב: The forgiveness of sins in Luke-Actsd. millerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16844676267073730959noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-81125724844209236212011-02-20T19:43:04.584-06:002011-02-20T19:43:04.584-06:00Hello Jeremy (if you are still listening): Thanks ...Hello Jeremy (if you are still listening): Thanks for the Wright recommendation. I'm still not quite persuaded by Wright's take on exile or Schweitzer's model of the atonement, which Wright adopts, but I'm intrigued enough by the way Wright develops the exile theme in the OT to want to pursue the question further, and Pitre's book on the tribulation is on my reading list--so I may eventually be persuaded. One hazard of being a skeptic is that one is forced occasionally to change one's mind. In this case, I wouldn't mind being wrong.d. millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16844676267073730959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-24198554072388389532010-12-02T11:29:03.594-06:002010-12-02T11:29:03.594-06:00You've read more than I have, then (at least i...You've read more than I have, then (at least if you've read most of Neusner). I don't recall Sanders ever arguing that most Jews believed they were in exile. I haven't read enough of the others you mention to comment.<br /><br />Re: others: Shaye Cohen's discussion of continuity and change between the Second Temple and Rabbinic periods is, I think, very helpful: Chapter 7 in <i>From the Maccabees to the Mishnah</i> (WJK, 2006). I've also been influenced by Seth Schwartz's sustained argument for a massive change after 70 in <i>Imperialism and Jewish Society</i> (Princeton, 2001).<br /><br />I presume you've also looked at my posts of Wright on exile (linked to in this post).d. millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16844676267073730959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-35664324146953349472010-11-30T18:53:36.050-06:002010-11-30T18:53:36.050-06:00sorry...one more.
I have Martin Goodman's bo...sorry...one more. <br /><br />I have Martin Goodman's book <i>Rome and Jerusalem.</i> I'll read it next.<br /><br />So if you have any others besides that one, please let me know!Jeremy Myershttp://www.tillhecomes.org/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-12572874837844606622010-11-30T18:49:02.298-06:002010-11-30T18:49:02.298-06:00I should clarify my request. I've read most ev...I should clarify my request. I've read most everything by Wright, Sanders, Neyrey, Malina, Pilch, Flusser, Young, and Neusner. <br /><br />It seems to me that in general, these authors would not agree with your conclusion. Did things change after AD 70? Of course. But I don't think they would say that belief in a continuing exile is a product of rabbinic Judaism. <br /><br />So I'm looking for resources which would refute the views of the authors above, using primary sources from the first century.Jeremy Myershttp://www.tillhecomes.org/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-58256290244165803422010-11-30T18:40:42.222-06:002010-11-30T18:40:42.222-06:00Do you have any resources I could check out which ...Do you have any resources I could check out which show the differences between Judaism then and now and how those differences evolved? I would love to research this more as Rabbinic/Jewish backgrounds is a growing interest of mine.Jeremy Myershttp://www.tillhecomes.org/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-1271482140316228272010-11-28T20:30:10.770-06:002010-11-28T20:30:10.770-06:00Thanks, Jeremy. The answer was basically what I ex...Thanks, Jeremy. The answer was basically what I expected, but it is really nice to have first-hand evidence! Of course, modern Jewish beliefs about being in exile don't necessarily translate back into the first century. The radical changes after the destruction of the Temple in AD 70 suggest that they do not. Fwiw, my working understanding is that the belief in a continuing exile is a product of rabbinic Judaism and was not representative of most Jews in Palestine before the destruction of the Temple.d. millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16844676267073730959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-52415340802564816872010-11-28T20:18:18.047-06:002010-11-28T20:18:18.047-06:00I asked several of my Chassidic Jewish friends abo...I asked several of my Chassidic Jewish friends about whether they view themselves in exile in any way today. As it worked out, I was able to ask them independently, not when they were all together. <br /><br />Every single one, without hesitation, said, "Yes, absolutely we are in exile." I got different bits of information from each person. Here is the summary:<br /><br />It is called <i>galot</i>, the Hebrew word for exile. The current exile is referred to as the Roman Galot. Previously, they had the Babylonian, Persian, and Hellenistic (or Greek) Galot. The Roman Galot began in 70 AD with the destruction of the Second Temple. <br /><br />Three factors are needed to not be in Galot: the land, the temple, and the king. Right now, they have only the land, and even that is not fully owned/possessed. <br /><br />I asked what characterized the Hellenistic Galot since they had the land and the temple, and they said that they didn’t have a king at the time, and even though they had the temple, it was missing several elements, such as the Ark of the Covenant. <br /><br />They all mentioned that when the Messiah returns, then the Roman exile will be over.<br /><br />Hope that helps a bit...Jeremy Myershttp://www.tillhecomes.org/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-2147110347056711162010-11-25T10:36:25.317-06:002010-11-25T10:36:25.317-06:00I'll have to take a look. Thanks, Jeremy.I'll have to take a look. Thanks, Jeremy.d. millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16844676267073730959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-53997210583718435622010-11-24T19:49:17.159-06:002010-11-24T19:49:17.159-06:00I will try to ask some of them later this week.
...I will try to ask some of them later this week. <br /><br />By the way, I know you are not too keen on NT Wright's view of forgiveness, but have you read his discussion of forgiveness in his book, <i>Evil and the Justice of God</i>? I found it quite helpful.Jeremy Myershttp://www.tillhecomes.org/blognoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-42262514058513500342010-11-22T20:02:27.525-06:002010-11-22T20:02:27.525-06:00I haven't. Let me know what you find out!I haven't. Let me know what you find out!d. millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16844676267073730959noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7143395511928869444.post-88633769075069341962010-11-22T16:37:49.763-06:002010-11-22T16:37:49.763-06:00Though modern Jewish thinking is not identical to ...Though modern Jewish thinking is not identical to first century thinking, have you asked any Orthodox Jews today if they view themselves in "exile" in any sense? <br /><br />I know a couple dozen. I will ask them.Jeremy Myershttp://www.tillhecomes.org/blognoreply@blogger.com